“A Very Good Argument”: Douglas Murray Concedes on the 'Forever Wars'

Dave Smith Just Wiped The Floor With Britain’s Worst War Zealot

On The Joe Rogan Experience, Douglas Murray, the self-styled “only neoconservative" in Britain, conceded to Dave Smith that the post-9/11 wars might have "degraded the US", "cost eight trillion dollars", and "killed hundreds of thousands of people".

“That’s a very good argument,” Murray responds before trying, as he does time and time again, to distract and dismiss the point by saying that podcasters aren’t as good as historians.

The whole three hour debate is fascinating and now I properly love Dave Smith.

The true number of dead in our post-9/11 conflicts is in the millions, by the way. And despite Murray’s protestations, Gaza is perhaps the most relentlessly bombed polity in recorded history.

Although he supported the war in 2003, Murray also admits Iraq was a "disaster" - because the US didn't have the "staying power" (which was bleeding obvious at the time).

Even our attacks on Syria and Libya, he admits, were bad ideas—but only in passing. He endorsed the Libya attack at the time.

So, what have the neocons actually got right, Douglas?

My one proper criticism of Dave Smith is that he could have gone even further. At what point, Douglas, does killing Gazans begin to strike you as a bit harsh?

He’s forever opining that Gazans voted in Hamas and that “every second or third house in Gaza is a weapons dump or a place that you enter the tunnels from”.

So, why not kill everyone in the strip?

Would a policy of total annihilation count as going a tad far, Douglas? Whatever the answer to that - and I think it’s pretty obvious - I’m sure that freak Destiny would back you up, since he said out loud last year that murdering all two million Gazans “might not qualify as genocide”.

So, do I blanch at Douglas Murray simply because his views on foreign policy are out of sync with my own? Well, I’m open to him being a nice bloke but… I have reason to pause on that: he uses logical fallacies a lot, while blaming Smith for the same thing - which must be deliberate at some level. And while Smith focuses on advocating for policies, Murray is always teeing himself up for channeling particuarly venomous hatred for one tribe over another. I don’t see anything genuine or constructive; just steps to spew disdain.

Dave Smith... as far as I am concerned, you're not “just asking questions”; you are an expert. The idea that you have to go to a country before commenting on it is absolutely absurd from many, many angles. Yet, it’s still being pushed by people who’ve lobotomized themselves for Israel.

Oh and at one point, Murray mocks social media accounts with 1,500 subscribers and a “zany new view”. 1,407, actually, Douglas - but thanks for the vote of confidence :-)

JRE full video: